All this talk of coalition is really getting under my skin, I must admit. If I try and be the 'Honest John' of Blamerbell Briefs fame, I would say that I am not buying in to the media's obsession with 'coalition'. The reason being that this election has been marred with discussion of coalition, which I think has played a huge part in putting voters off. Many people that I have met on the doorstep don't want Labour back in power, but neither do they ever want to see the Tories in power in Wales again. Nick Bourne's arguments on Radio Wales yesterday don't seem to hold ground as much as he would like, therefore. Yes, voters do not like Labour at the moment, but they definitely do not see the Tories as 'an alternative' in Wales as part of a coalition or not.
To be honest, I don't want to get too embroiled in this coalition debate because I want to campaign to win seats for Plaid, to form a Plaid Government in May. It's frustrating that to say the above is just swept under the carpet and scorned at, as if by stating that I want to win an election on Plaid's own merit is dodging the question of coalition! It is not!
In my opinion, two weeks before an election is not a time to be discussing the ins and outs of coalition or co-operation post election- of who is phoning who, and who will be getting the top jobs. This confusion is only turning potential voters away, and allowing Labour to scaremonger in all their election leaflets about letting the Tories in through the back door.
Yes, I am something of an idealist. Some people say it's because I am young. They say I will soon grow up, be sensible, and realise that it's not a perfect world. Until ' I grown up', I do not sit comfortably with working with the Tories- new image, shiny new leader, whatever. Call me what you like- backward looking, naive etc. I'm not particularly bothered. My politics is driven by my heart, and I don't see the point in being in politics if at the first sniff of power, I sell my principles. Is ousting Labour at any cost a real, legitimate reason for forming a Goverment anyway?
In cases like this, it's better to be honest than to shy away from discussion. I know that there could be difficult decisions to make post May the 3rd, and I will, if elected, be part of such discussions, no doubt. If consensus needs to be reached between certain parties to form a Government, then that shall take place after May the 3rd, and not a minute before that.
17 comments:
If you are keen to be honest and open with voters, don't you think you should tell them what you will do after the election - before they vote.
And if you are so keen to paint parties into their historical image and refuse to accept that parties change - what about the fundamentally right wing views of Saunders Lewis and others who formed Plaid Cymru in the first place.
'If you are keen to be honest and open with voters, don't you think you should tell them what you will do after the election - before they vote.'
As I have said, why should I have to defend the argument that I want to fight for Plaid to win as many seats as possible? That is not misleading the voters in any way shape or form. What we do after the election will be for elected representatives, who have won on a party political platform,not on the basis of a coalition.
'And if you are so keen to paint parties into their historical image and refuse to accept that parties change'.
Did I mention that I was 'painting parties into their historical image' at all in my blog? No. Why do you want to shrug off your past anyway Glyn. Shouldn't you be proud of that? Am I supposed to be impressed by the 'New' Tories, whatever that is?
All parties have members with different persuasions and beliefs. Fundamentally, plaid is a left of centre party. Saunders Lewis played a part in shaping plaid. It doesn't mean that I agree with everything that he did.
Coalition politics is the reality of our electoral system. The people of Wales -including their politicians- will just have to get used to it.
Parties can indeed change. Labour had to convince the voters that there would be no return to secondary picketing, out of control inflation and the winter of discontent. It took 2 defeats by Neil Kinnock, the dropping of the block vote from conference, the ditching of clause 4 and a Tory-clone leader to achieve that.
What people should not trust is parties that change overnight.
David Cameron may want us to believe he's different. But he was the person who wrote the 'old Tory' manifesto just 2 years ago. John Redwood is still there. Can we really believe that the Tories have changed just because of a new logo?
As Neil Kinnock said of Margaret Thatcher (when after the Greens got 15% of the vote in the 1989 Euro Elections she said at the Conservative conference that that she was a "true friend of the earth") "She's not green but she thinks the electorate is."
Yet you are more than happy to have a go at people in the welsh Labour party when Blair does something...Tony Blair helped shaped the modern Labour party, doesnt mean i agree with everything he has done...
You contradict yourself here with this post...
http://bethanjenkins.blogspot.com/2007/04/so-your-grandfather-was-labour.html
Coalitions- Your leader admitted that Tories will serve in a plaid led coalition. You need to deal with the political REALITY, how can you honestly say that 'the people' want Labour out when they will still have nearly double the seats Plaid will? LESS people may want to vote Labour perhaps, but lets not get ahead of ourselves, Labour are still the biggest party in Wales by a long shot.
Talk of coalitions is important because it is obvious that Plaid's 'policy' platform will be stifled by Tory influence. Just ask Leanne Wood..
http://renewedlabour.blogspot.com/2007/04/leanne-wood.html
The tories have fought and honest and decent campaign, they havent ruled anything out or in. Plaid want their cake and eat it, how can you be left of centre but expect to have tory ministers in your cabinet?
Glyn would you be happy to be a minster in a 'socialist' government???
Bethan, the reality is that the difference in AM's between Plaid and the Tories will not be much, therefore any coalition will involve horsetrading. Do you think Glyn and Nick Borne will go 'ok we will enter this coalition so you can all be good socialists'?
To me it is the biggest issue in the elections to people. All the opposition parties can pretty much offer a manifesto that they KNOW what be put into government without trading with other parties
Plaid has a divide between nats and new left of centre people...
Given the way things look "up north" I suspect the Tories will either be to busy knifing each other in the back after the elections or will offer us anything we want in a desperate bid to get into power.
Either way they wont be in the driving seat after the elections.....
Look guys, the whole point of this post is that I don’t think the last two weeks of the election should be wasted on idle talk about coalitions. I’m in politics cause of principle, a determination to create a more just an equal society. I’m in Plaid because it is the party that best reflects those aspirations.
The aim of the post is to say that those are the things that will guide my actions after the election. At the end of the day what I want to see after the election is Plaid’s manifesto commitments delivered one way or another. That will be a matter for post May the 3rd.
Labour are still the biggest party in Wales by a long shot.
Most voters don't vote Labour. Another Marcusian theory down the pan ;-)
But you arent naive enough to believe that Plaid will win a majority...So surely a dose of pragmatism is needed by you.
All your talk about principle i honestly believe are sincere, and i have the utmost respect for them. But an 'equal' society will never be achieved with the conservative party having a modicum of power. I accept that Britain has not been made equal enough by New Labour because it has clung on to some of the more thatcherite solutions of the tories.
The tories do not believe in an equal society, they believe high unemployment is a necessary part of their solutions to society. How exactly will a Plaid/Tory coalition deliver these totally at odds visions of a future in wales.
One wants independence/One wants no more devolved power.
One wants social justice/the other wants social responsibily
One wants a more socialist society/the other ones very being is anti-socialist...
what will be your slogan...heres one.
Plaid Tory- party of wales (and dont forget middle england!)
Do you share Leanne Wood's view on the tories?
marcusian and other Labour people are obsessed with the Tories. To me they are no better or worse than Labour. Labour are happy to introduce or continue Tory policies how is this worse than serving in a coailition with them?
As for the oft quoted Plaid "split" between nationalists and socialists this is a bit of a joke. By and large we are all very happy with the programme put forward it would be odd if we all agreed with everything. I have yet to find anything in the programme I dont support...and I have looked desperately for something to moan about:)
My experience on the doorstep is that people want Labour out. If they get 22 seats (a terrible result for them) after 65% of the voters back other parties it would be legitimate to dump them.
Marcusian needs to explain why Labour wont do a coalition with us. Do they wnat to see the Tories in power?
Marcusian needs to explain why Labour wont do a coalition with us. Do they wnat to see the Tories in power?
Yes this would be interesting. After all, Labour are always trying to take the moral highground on this 'coalition' issue.
I wouldnt see it to be a major drama with regards a Plaid/Labour coalition...I dont see huge ideological differences between the two parties, i am a socialist. I share many ideological viewpoints with people in Plaid...Thats my personal view.
Had Plaid stated that they 100% will not enter a coalition with the tories in anyway, i think a Plaid/Labour coalition would have been a real possibility. I think Peter Hain was wrong to rule it out so quickly, but in all fairness Labour are the only party who could come close to getting enough seats to form a government on their own. Everyones predictions are based on nothing but hope and fears, i dont think we will get lower than 25, but i am not naive enough to know that with any concrete evidence. The one poll has shown Labour will get 25 seats...CymruMark- where do you get the belief they will get 22 seats? what is that prediction based on??? A hunch? well bloody hell Labour better start worrying then!
I will be posting on my blog about his post-election with regards the future of Welsh Politics...I have already sketched a few ideas out.
I think its shameful of any supposed left of centre party to enter a government with right-wing tories, hence why i find it amazing Plaid would do so. None of you have answered the questions i have asked...What 'socialist' policies will the tories allow Plaid to act out? What consensus can be drawn between a party that doesnt not want any more powers given to the assembly? and one committed to independence?
Bethan, do you agree with Leanne Wood's comment about Plaid losing all credibility with working-class voters by entering a coalition with the tories???
ORDOwhatever...
LABOUR ARE THE BIGGEST PARTY IN WALES BY A LONG SHOT
2003 Assembly Elections
Labour- 340515 votes
Tory- 169832 votes
Lib Dem- 120250 votes
Plaid- 180185 votes
Please explain to me how Labour are not the biggest party in Wales...??? What part of LABOUR IS THE BIGGEST PARTY IN WALES BY A LONG SHOT IS FALSE?
My prediction is that Labour and Tories would do a deal to stop Plaid, just as the would to stop the SNP. As evidenced in some Scottish councils.
marcusian- to put it plainly, I would much rather a red/ green coalition. I understand what Leanne is saying because we are both from the south wales valleys where the Tories are not popular at all. BUT I don't want to get embroiled in a discussion about coalition now.
I can't tell you what 'socialist' policies the tories will allow Plaid to act out becuase nothing has been discussed.
I must admit that it would be hard to marry our party's politics with that of the Tories.
'My prediction is that Labour and Tories would do a deal to stop Plaid, just as the would to stop the SNP. As evidenced in some Scottish councils'.
problem is, chris is that the Tories in Wales have ruled out a coalition with Labour already because they want to create 'an alternative' government which doesn't include Labour at all.
Bethan,
Fair play, i think we have alot of agreement on the issue. Like i said i think the future of Welsh politics is about where we can find consensus and not division.
"I must admit that it would be hard to marry our party's politics with that of the Tories. "
Which is exactly why it is an important issue for me and the public...How can any government function on this basis? How can a government provide any clear direction of the future of wales with this being the backdrop?
This 'marriage' you talk about will be a mish mash of horsetrading, also bedevilled by the fact that Plaid and Tories will have near identical amounts of seats. A Lab-Lib coalition will involve far less deal making because of the disparity in Seats. Also i wouldnt rule out a minority government just yet, Plaid have said they wont 'prop-up' a Labour government.
Like you i dont want to talk about coalitions just yet, because i am saving my views on it until after the election...
marcusian- we could be here all day talking about ifs and buts. I'm not saying that I'm saving my views until after the election, but that this shouldn't be an election issue. If it must be an election issue for the press, then they should at least pressure Labour to answer questions about it on the same level as they are with regards to Plaid.
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