I have to admit that I don't particularly see eye to eye with Elfyn Llwyd's analysis as to why the Wales Office should not be reformed under new constitutional changes by Gordon Brown- i.e that "it would slow down the democratic process and hinder the work being done on LCOs [legislative competence orders]' and that ' it would be foolish to take this step at this moment in time. '
The Westminster Government has plans to introduce a new super department for the UK's nations and regions. Whether Wales is classed as a region in this instance I'm not so sure, but the main thrust behind this particular change is the argument that it would serve to benefit devolution, not undermine it. I haven't seen the plans in full, but I would tend to agree with Peter Black AMs analysis ( there's a first!) in that the main concern lies with the status of any new super department, and the need for Wales to be fully represented in such a department. To do away with the current system of having a dedicated Secretary of State for Wales would be insufficient without taking this into account.
I am more flexible about changes to the Wales Office as I believe that it must evolve as devolution progresses. To leave it as it stands would be in denial of the system that we have in place at the moment, and the development of the Welsh Assembly to date. Of course, as I have said on so many occasions that I am now becoming bored of myself, the current LCO system was created by Labour for Labour, and the veto by the Secretary of State on new legislation brought forward by AMs still stands. I would be much more supportive of any ideas to change the make up of the Wales Office if Gordon Brown and his advisers scrapped this injustice, and gave the Assembly more flexibility to govern without strict caveats to power here in Wales.
The sooner we get a Parliament for Wales the less we will have to worry ourselves with the workings of the Wales Office. In my opinion, an office that combines the work of Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland could be given the flexibility to be more progressive in that it may encourage those in the department to share cross border ideas on legislation, and encourage greater communication between the Celtic Nations.
We shall wait and see what comes of this idea.
10 comments:
As I commented on my blog I cannot see this change making a lot of difference as LCOs will continue to await approval before becoming law. If it results in speeding up this process it may be a help to Wales, but it is just another unnecessary stage in devolution when Wales, like Scotland, could have a Parliament here and now.
Mannin has had one for centuries.
Your .... "I am more flexible about changes to the Wales Office as I believe that it must evolve as devolution progresses."
Must "devolution progress", this is the question uppermost in my mind. It is as if there is a great wrong to be righted, such a great wrong that only separation can repair the wound.
For the life of me I just do not see what this "great wrong" is, other than the historic error of forcing people to speak English in school such a long time ago. In China, as we write, there are 60 million people learning English because of its pre-eminent position in the linguistic championships, simply because of its inherent ability to evolve into the premier language of commerce, science and modern culture. If the early coercion hadn't occurred we would be attending English classes as do the Chinese.
Not so!
Wales and England are close neighbours. It would have been inevitable that English is understood. China is half a world away. Your argument does not hold water.
I am a bit confused with stonemasons comment.
60 million?? Chinese people may be learning English, as a second language. That doesn't mean they are being prevented from using or that they are disowning their own language. Welsh speakers have to fight tremendous prejudice to be able to communicate in their language.
Incidentely what is English, is it Cockney English,Yorkshire, Lancarshire, Somerset, American English, Texting. or heaven forbid thr plummy tones of Mrs Windsors English. Please explain as it is a combination of many languages including Indian and some Welsh if he cares to delve deep enough.
English is an amalgam of two root languages, Germanic and Latin.
Its grammar is based on Anglo-Saxon and its vocabulary is derived from both Saxon and Norman French/Latin so making it a language with a huge vocabulary, of over half a million words, and it has absorbed vocabulary from many languages besides.
Its forms are therefore very expressive and range from the uncouth to the sophisticated.
Its handicap, as a result of this mixed breeding, is that it is nota phonetic language as the Celtic and Latin languages are. Thus, spelling and pronounciation are a problem for many.
alanindyfed,
There was no argument offered, rather the question what is the "great wrong", I have read that Gwynfor Evans regarded "Britishness" as a synonym for "Englishness" which uses English culture as a blankets over the Welsh. Is this the great wrong?
Roger.
I offered the "historic error of forcing people to speak English in school" as a potential "great wrong", only because I am aware of what happened in Welsh schools during the 18/19th century.
I do believe that English, as you said "a combination of many languages", is the superior language in terms of its usage, at one time I would have declared Latin to be the superior, but time goes on.
Non Welsh speakers are not prejudiced against Welsh speakers, they might fear a minority language being imposed upon them through legislation. I would offer the Catalonia example where the native Spanish speakers are asking for the protection of "Spanish" as a valid fear of the English speakers of Wales.
Unfortunately you both sidestepped my question ....
"Must "devolution progress", this is the question uppermost in my mind."
stonemason
Yes devolution must progress and in progressing reduce the influence of the Wales Office. If only to get rid of the inferiority complex instiled in us as a nation. By this I mean continuosly being told we can not look after ourselves as a country.
This usualy by people with an agender of some sort. It is suprising how ordinary people can believe a lie when it is told often enough by someone with some form of "authority"?? How will we know if we are never given the chance to try. As there is obviously no going back we can only go forward and grow ever stronger.
Regarding the language issue, I firmly believe it is another example of my previous paragraph. The language being forced through legislation is something that would never happen without the consent of the people of Wales, can you honestly ever see that happening. We can use both languages side by side without any problem, other countries do.
Obviously(though I may be wrong) you are not a welsh speaker. I have learnt welsh to a standard that I am able to have a reasonable conversation. Believe me the prejustice is there, I have even experienced it from my own family especialy when we put our children through the Welsh school system.
If we can remove that inferiority complex and fear which breeds prejudice, there is nothing Wales could not achive as a nation
Roger,
I am not a Welsh speaker, though I regret not having a better Welsh language education as a young person, I intend to learn Welsh in my retirement, fairly soon, so that I might read the literature I am forced to read via translation.
I would like to address the points you raise, but with thought and careful consideration, so If you can be patient, and Bethan be gracious, I will come back to this interesting debate on Sunday morning with my response.
stonemason
Like yourself I also regret not having any form of Welsh language education and it is only recently I have become fairly proficient in it, though I still have a lot of dificulty in conversing.
This came about because I wanted to learn Welsh for myself. If your reason for learning it is because you feel you are being forced to read translations to know what you are reading about, then I am afraid you are going to find it very difficult if not impossible, because it is something you can only do if you realy want to. Your heart has to be in it, yours I am truly sorry to say doesn't seem to be. There feels in your comments some of the prejudice coming through that, as I have said before, experienced on many occasions.
I do not wish you to feel I am trying to put you off or put you down. I realy wish you well in learning the Welsh language, but please do it for the right reason and gain a wonderful experience.
I am honoured that you feel you have to give my points, "thought and careful consideration". Thank you
How on earth could you possibly know whether my heart would be etc.....
But you do perceive my prejudices correctly, in my opinion the Welsh language has little benefit other than as a cultural experience, having said that it is my intention to read "Llyfr Gwyn Rhydderch" and "Llyfr Coch Hergest" before I leave this earth.
Having read over 3000 pages of the history, during the previous week, and still not finished, of what I can only describe as the "great wrong", I believe the devolution question will benefit only the political classes, bringing nothing to the table of the general population. It is my opinion that many prejudices held by the nationalist's of Wales relate to the "reports of the commissioners of enquiry into the state of education in Wales published in 1847" commonly known as "The Treachery of the Blue Books or Treason of the Blue Books". These prejudices drive me to stand in opposition to everything Plaid, except the cultural expansion of the Welsh language. Not, I might add, would this be the expansion of the Welsh language at the expense of English as the language of business and government.
Devolution is akin to cultural suicide by the majority on the sacrificial fires of political inferiority.
To continue this discussion I can be found at http://john-tylers.spaces.live.com/ where I write in opposition to any form of Devolution for this wonderful country.
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