They say a week is a long time in politics. After my short experience as an AM, I think I'd say an hour is a long time in Welsh politics, especially if you assess this in terms of last night's Lib dem drama!
You all know where I stand on the issue of coalition (the Western Mail highlights this, but its news is unfortunately very out of date today), but I am perplexed by the Lib dems. Totally perplexed. They suspended talks with Labour to pursue talks with Plaid and the Tories. Negotiations took place, with Mike German seemingly either oblivious to opposition in his own party, or in denial of that opposition so as to pursue his dream of being a Cabinet Minister( again).
The Lib dems have some serious issues to address- leadership being its main priority. I must say, having seen how the Lib dems have acted, a Rainbow coalition would have been far from stable from the outset. I don't think Peter Black could stomach giving Mike German a Ministerial position, which is one of the reasons, (or the only reason?) why I believe that they are in this mess right now.
One thing is sure, we have to work through these next few days to get a deal. I don't believe that suspending talks with Labour was wise tactially for us, but that is neither here nor there at this point.
We must talk with Labour at this crucial stage, and re-ignite the red- green option. We will have to encourage Labour to play ball now. Whether they will co-operate with us is another issue altogether.
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Wythnos yn hir men gwleidyddiaeth..............................
Mae nhw yn dweud bod wythnos yn amser hir mewn gwleidyddiaeth. Yn fy mhrofiad byr fel AC, buaswn yn dweud fod awr yn ddigon hir yng ngwleidyddiaeth Cymru, yn enwedig pan yn aseseu yn nhermau drama'r Democratiad Rhyddfrydol neithiwr!
Rydych i gyd yn gwybod lle rwyf yn sefyll ar glymbaid enfys (mae'r Western Mail yn tanlinellu hyn, newyddion braidd yn hen heddiw), ond ni allaf ddeall y Lib Dems. Wedi gohirio trafodaethau gyda Llafur, i ymroddi i drafodaethau gyda Plaid a'r Toriaid, doedd Mike German ddim yn cydnabod y gwrthwynebiad yn ei blaid, efallai i ganlyn y freuddwyd o fod yn Weinidog, eto.Mae rhaid i'r Dem Rhydd wynebu rhai problemau mawr, gan flaenoriaethu arweinyddiaeth.
O weld sut maent yn ymddwyn, ni fyddai clymblaid enfys wedi bod yn sefydog iawn o'r cychwyn. Dwi ddim yn credu fod gan Peter Black y stumog i roi Gweinidogaeth ar blat i Mike German. Un o'r rhesymau maent yn y fath lanast.Yn sicr, yn y dyddiau i ddod rhaid gweithio yn galed i gael cytundeb. Nid oedd gohirio trafodaethau gyd Llafur yn symudiad tactegol ar ein rhan, ond dydi hyn o ddim gwahaniaeth rwan.
Rhaid i ni drafod gyda Llafur ar yr adeg yma, ac ail-danio'r ddewis Plaid-Llafur. Rhaid ysgogi Llafur i chwarae'r gem rwan. Ond, a fydd y blaid yna yn cydweithio?
15 comments:
Your leadre should taken Labour's hand off for the deal put on the table a few days ago, Bethan - but the car, office and boasting rights were clearly more important to him than governing. I can;t really see Rhodri et al running to your rescue now, considering that only yesterday you were handing out cabinet seats to Tories.
Bethan
You must recognise it works both ways. Tell me exactly what other than a review of the barnett formula, a vote on a referendum, a new welsh language act etc you want?
Marcusian - there are two arguments here. I think talks with Labour should have continued for now - but, those were offers made by Rhodri. When Huw Lewis, Leighton Andrews and the rest got to hear about that, what wou;d have happened? So I would side with Bethan on talking to Labour, but was prepared to embrace the rainbow if there was no other choice for Plaid.
It's all academic now. Lib Dems who want PR, but not coalition with anyone. It's just sheer stupidity from this party - not just turning down a rainbow, but also refusing to talk with Labour. I don't think that Labour have much of a claim to governance, but stability is better than nothing!
marcusian- I'm not quite sure what you are asking me. Can you please clarify?
I'm not sure a red-green is now possible.I think we need time to reflect, and to consult members on the way ahead.
"Whether they will co-operate with us is another issue altogether"
This means PLAID must co-operate. Much of your parties garb surrounding the suspension of talks witH Labour centred on how supposedly slow and luke warm they were...
Plaid have flip flopped i am actually unsure what they want as concessions..
That guy you know Blamerbell stated that the barnett formula, a referendum and a new welsh language act was offered to Plaid. I think that is a fair offer. What do you think?
Plaid have argued around the edges on those terms, but essentially there is progress on all those issues. How long before your party wheel out the 'what we want is a stable government for wales' line...Why should Labour offer any more when your party made it clear this is a second choice (although your probable first choice).
Bethan
24 hours is a long time in p0litics
let alone a week.
Having now read the rainbow document its a shame it wont be implemented.
The Libs dems are a waste of time. perhaps we need a coherent approach to some of their more intelligent activists to get them over to us.I could do with some more friends :)
marcus, personally I think that we should work for a red-green, but as others have noted on blogs, we suspended talks so I don't know how realistic any deal is asap. I can't say what will happen in the next few hours though!
I'm unclear of the way forward now, but as I've said, we need time to reflect.
For the record, our stance at opposition to the Rainbow coalition had no bearing whatsoever on the Lib dem discussions and I will not take responsibility for that. I've said on record that I would support the consensus of the party. I think that's fair.
Bethan,
As i have stated previously, you have my admiration for taking the stand you did. We DO share many political views with regards social justice and the like.
I agree with it being unclear, its almost as if being in government is a grenade with the pin pulled out!
thank you marcus. I've just heard Betsan Powys say on the news that Labour will work with progressive minded people in all parties..what does that mean?
I hope Labour are not arrogant from here on in. There must be an air of humility if they want to make governing Wales a success. On another level, there must be effective scrutiny of that government also.
Why is the red-green option not back on the table? Labour in a minority will limp on until the civil war erupts around Rhodri's succession. Rhodri's talked about reaching out - well, why not reach out to the second biggest party?
I suspect because he can't take his party with him.
As a result, tribal Labour will rule for 18 months and then they will get so bogged down in losing key votes (and a vote of confidence ultimately) that the Rainbow will be resurrected.
hafod- I agree totally that the red-green option should be back on the cards. I didn't agree with suspending talks, as you know because we were not 100% that German could get his party behind him to deliver the rainbow dream.
We need to talk to our membership now and assess what they believe is the best way forward also, as we will inevitably be faced with this decision again in the future.
Bethan.
Whether Peter Black did not want Mike German to have a cabinet position or not, doe not matter.
But that is reason why the coalition that you and the 3 AMs did not want did not happen. For that you should be grateful.
As as former Liberal Party activist, there were some of us that had reservations about merging with the "Soggie" Democrats, I personally wanted to give it a go. but now I wonder.
Mike- Peter Black's situation is different to mine, Please don't compare it.
Myself, Leanne, Nerys and Helen thought it only right that we express our opinions, and allow an alternative viewpoint to be aired. We did not believe that negotiations had been exhausted with Labour. I've said that I would have abided by the party's decision from the vote at National Council.
If Cymrumark thinks that Plaid can make a pitch for 'intelligent' Welsh Lib Dem activists he can think again. However, he is more than welcome to the rats that turned down the chance to exercise power in order to further their political ambitions.
A Red Green coalition would have to be approved by both parties (presumably via special conferences). Given the level of Plaid/Labour hostility down the years both Leaders will have their work cut out. However if Plaid are going to do this it is important that they get in there before the Liberals regroup after their leadership election.
Rhodri might prefer a partnership with Plaid personally, but he knows how tough a job he will have selling it to his party - and the more Plaid posture about chasing rainbows the tougher it will get!
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